Yes, that's one of the best Capital ship sims - most of which are Star Trek, sadly (a little more variety would be nice). Hard to find though - Bridge Commander has become sort of a cult classic, which makes it quite expensive.

@Destraex: I didn't mean to go off on such a tangent as I was seeing the above posts people made and I thought I'd throw some good mods in there.  As for FL, yes, it does feel like a "real" capital ship. We've worked a lot on getting the sluggish and "weighted" feel to them. In addition to this, we've made player ships dockable, so an ISD can carry its own fleet and then deploy them in different systems. Futhermore, we’ll have a “hyperspace” like function where ships can jump from system to system without using docking buoys (if you’ve played FL before). 

As for shield controls, we’ve devised a way to accomplish this effect. Essentially, give more power to engines takes away from shield/weapon recharge. Using your weapons more drains engines/shields. So, ya, we’ve tried to accommodate that, too. 

Also, speeds are much slower in FW2, and the physics are SWs with only a slight bit of  Newtonian physics.  This will allow many players to use cockpit mode now.

Anyways, hope this helps with some of the issues you’ve had.  Sorry for derailing the thread a bit. 

You really shouldnt pretend to understand the topic if its readily apparent that you have no clue. nintendogs,Sims,Mechwarrior/commander,wing commander,tie fighter are just a few off "simulators" off the top of mainstream AAA simulators that tended to sell millions of copies each. So i would have to say you are WRONG repeat WRONG. The genre in itself isnt niche and has multiple examples of million box seller franchises throughout its history. This is also completely ignoring strategy simulators" like the civilization series and car driving.

Starshatter looks interesting, where could I buy it and does it have any DRM? If it came out on impulse or steam tommorow I would buy it in a heatbeat.

its online download like steam and no DRM I know of

You get it here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/334/details/Starshatter.-.The.Gathering.Storm

I'm sorry, did you just call Nintendogs and The Sims a part of the Simulation Genre?

Mechwarrior and it's assorted spinoffs were hardly million sellers - I'd be surprised if they broke 5 million if you put all the games set in that universe together. Wing Commander, despite it's huge follwing and impact on the genre was not quite the top seller - and what it did make got burned on the high quality (or high salary) hollywood acting talent. Tie Fighter and X-Wing sold well - not a surprise since they had the Star Wars license behind them. Try to release them now and see how many people even meet the basic requirement of having a joystick/gamepad to even start the game.

Civ and driving are also not in the Sim genre - they are in their own. TBS and Racing respectively.

All things aside simulator developers such as the Russian Black Shark helecopter simulator that just came out say their is definently a market for simulators and thats all that matters to them. The Black Shark devs put a huge amount of effort into what is a superbly crafted graphics engine that has all the realism one could want.

I'm still holding my breath for il2 sturmoviks next game maddox games are working on a new battle of britain simulator.

check out this site and tell me sims don't have a market. Look at the numbers on the forums. Besides the average age of gamers in general is getting older and appreciation for the finer things in simulators getting a little better

http://www.simhq.com/index.html

I have had some bugs with Starshatter, but i if you really want a Starship simulator etc i would probably give it a try.
I wouldnt hold my breath for Northstar from Kerberos, it seems more like vaporware to me tbh. And who ever mentioned Jutland thanks, that one had gone below my rader so checking it out now.

Edit:
Hmm seems Kerberos actualy gotten around to relasing some info on Northstar so maybe its actualy comming after all. They had it as a bullet point on there website for as long as i can remember, before even SOTS was out.

Northstar was a bulletpoint because it's always good to tease people with something new - see the hints on Elemental dropped during the Beta of Sins. If anything I'm kind of doubting Fort Zombie ever comes out (the other Kerberos project).

I refer you to forums.relicnews.com. They have comparable numbers, at the least (and they purge inactive users and old threads regularily) - while only being dedicated to one company. There's fora that are far bigger than that for The Sims. One game - and note the plural. The Sim Genre is niche - not bad, just small.

I think we need Star Ships to simulate first

LOL Teseer - You have a point. But really we already know a lot with our NASA deep space probes and shuttles about how it is going to work. Offcourse folding space is not possible yet... but nor was flying at all not so long ago.

@Awac A - that was me about Jutland - and I am greatly enjoying the real time grand campaign. Thats right its got total war style campaign - except its realtime. Pausable offcourse. Zooms you in to the action anytime their is an encounter. I just had one helluva huge night battle!!! The ships were so close to each other that the formations were tangled. BRUTAL!

@DatonKallandor - could not have put it better myself. The sim market is small but still large enough to be profitable. I think also that it is often underestimated. Their was a star trek game that came out recently, but it was sooo simplified it bored me to death. Cannot remember the name. Klingon Academy and Starshatter are the best ones I have encountered so far.

I was surfing around youtube and I came across a video for a game called Naumachia. The word is a translation of ancient Roman which essentially means "naval battles held in a flooded coliseum". The one vid out there now shows a lot of badass fighter combat around larger starships. On the forum it was mentioned that the game is planned to be multiplayer only, though that may change.

I think the hardest part for making a starship sim is having been allow interaction with the crew, or at least a bare minimal of it.

I don't know if anyone of you remember imperium galatica 1 where you can go to various section of the ship and talk to various important crew members, or you can have it less like what happens in mass effect/ST bridge commander.  Though in both games, the X-wing/freespace type of simulation fighting is non-exsistant.  What do you guys think??

Another possibilities is having an addional layer of simulation like Cesar 4 but instead be on a starship, but if you encounter the enemies, it switches to a freespace type combat mode.

I would still say it should be kinda like SilenHunter 4, just in space.

Instead of a single cockpit it should have different stations like you do in SH4.

Weapon loadout and management.

Crew management, watch shifts etc.

Compartment management.

Damage control management.

You dont stear a starship with a joystick you order it around with a heading, can be done either from 2D map or 3D map/view.

Imo you dont have to be able to walk around on the ship or talk with the crew like it was a RPG. Just some different consoles like SH4 or the Janes Submarine games.

Not to change the subject much but how would you compare Jutland to Pacific Storm: Allies?